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upsticksOK, OK. I have something to announce say.
I THINK BRINGING BACK IANTO JONES WOULD BE A BAD IDEA, and without trying to harsh anybody's squee, I think it's unlikely to work. Fanpower is great, and is so often a fantastic reminder about why we love fandom, and how much love really goes into canons, from all directions, but in this case, I simply don't think it's going to work.
First of all, and this may just be my opinion and nothing more, but it feels to me like protesting against actions made in, for, about a tv show -- in particular to encourage a story to go one way or another (and that includes bringing a character back) -- has been executed here more for the way it's quite the fashion at the moment, rather than to the idea that it works, because sometimes it doesn't. There's nothing consistent about the achievements fan-based fandom-related campaigns have made to their particular shows - some have got somewhere (both Family Guy and Futurama were brought back after high viewing figures and well-selling DVDs); some have managed to claw their way back only to be pushed off the proverbial cliff again (think Jericho) and some have got absolutely nowhere, with TPTB doing their own thing and saying, pretty arrogantly, "Well, that's the way it goes. We're the writers, not you."
The last one is the most patronising, belittling, most resentment-forming outcome. And unfortunately, I think that's the way this campaign is most likely to go, especially with a creator who seems to have little respect for the fanbase, describing the 'backlash' and fandom outcry as "simply a few people typing", although that's a whole other can of worms. Moreover, a man who views a programme as his own because he had a hand in its beginning, and not anybody else's to own, even a shared property after all the work they put in, and the fans who keep it on air, is unlikely to have his stubborness swayed by what (with all due respect) might not have the weight desired.
But secondly, and more significantly, there is what bringing back Ianto would mean for Torchwood - the characters and the series. How would a Jack who mourned Ianto get over finding him alive again, particularly in light of his own immortality? How could it be explained, when his death was so straightforward, that Ianto managed to survive the deadly gas? Come to that, how would Ianto be re-introduced to the series again? What would reviving Ianto mean for Owen and Tosh's expirations? All these questions just support the idea that bringing back Ianto would, as good ol' RTD said himself, "devalue" the series.
There's more to it than that though: If one is to view the death of this main character as avoidable, which many fans believe it was, then while it was an unnecessary death (maybe even pointless, as what did it really achieve? Demonstrating how "unlikely [it would have been] if everyone had survived" is not one of Torchwood's strong points. Nor Doctor Who's for that matter) bringing Ianto back -- either through some sort of magical sci-fi intervention or some sort of retconning -- would provide even more unnecessary and pointless storytelling, and a gaping hole that would become a niggling voice, much like that Missing Year after Rose first travelled in the TARDIS, that causes much annoyance to any writer, official or fanfic. "Oh yes, but Ianto died, don't you know?" That would be enough for me to see Torchwood lose some of its edge, and the belief that I usually suspend for my Torchwood viewing come crashing down.
Yes, Ianto's death was pointless, poorly written, and like some parts of Torchwood, a very untidy way of getting'character development' something across. I also think it was a ill-perceived act of a very egotistical man, but like I said before, that's for another time. The point is, that while Ianto is one of my favourite characters, and I'm as big a fan of 'Janto' as the next fangirl, I'm not holding my breath for a Series 4 Ianto (although that's not saying I won't check out old S1 and S2 Ianto again).
I THINK BRINGING BACK IANTO JONES WOULD BE A BAD IDEA, and without trying to harsh anybody's squee, I think it's unlikely to work. Fanpower is great, and is so often a fantastic reminder about why we love fandom, and how much love really goes into canons, from all directions, but in this case, I simply don't think it's going to work.
First of all, and this may just be my opinion and nothing more, but it feels to me like protesting against actions made in, for, about a tv show -- in particular to encourage a story to go one way or another (and that includes bringing a character back) -- has been executed here more for the way it's quite the fashion at the moment, rather than to the idea that it works, because sometimes it doesn't. There's nothing consistent about the achievements fan-based fandom-related campaigns have made to their particular shows - some have got somewhere (both Family Guy and Futurama were brought back after high viewing figures and well-selling DVDs); some have managed to claw their way back only to be pushed off the proverbial cliff again (think Jericho) and some have got absolutely nowhere, with TPTB doing their own thing and saying, pretty arrogantly, "Well, that's the way it goes. We're the writers, not you."
The last one is the most patronising, belittling, most resentment-forming outcome. And unfortunately, I think that's the way this campaign is most likely to go, especially with a creator who seems to have little respect for the fanbase, describing the 'backlash' and fandom outcry as "simply a few people typing", although that's a whole other can of worms. Moreover, a man who views a programme as his own because he had a hand in its beginning, and not anybody else's to own, even a shared property after all the work they put in, and the fans who keep it on air, is unlikely to have his stubborness swayed by what (with all due respect) might not have the weight desired.
But secondly, and more significantly, there is what bringing back Ianto would mean for Torchwood - the characters and the series. How would a Jack who mourned Ianto get over finding him alive again, particularly in light of his own immortality? How could it be explained, when his death was so straightforward, that Ianto managed to survive the deadly gas? Come to that, how would Ianto be re-introduced to the series again? What would reviving Ianto mean for Owen and Tosh's expirations? All these questions just support the idea that bringing back Ianto would, as good ol' RTD said himself, "devalue" the series.
There's more to it than that though: If one is to view the death of this main character as avoidable, which many fans believe it was, then while it was an unnecessary death (maybe even pointless, as what did it really achieve? Demonstrating how "unlikely [it would have been] if everyone had survived" is not one of Torchwood's strong points. Nor Doctor Who's for that matter) bringing Ianto back -- either through some sort of magical sci-fi intervention or some sort of retconning -- would provide even more unnecessary and pointless storytelling, and a gaping hole that would become a niggling voice, much like that Missing Year after Rose first travelled in the TARDIS, that causes much annoyance to any writer, official or fanfic. "Oh yes, but Ianto died, don't you know?" That would be enough for me to see Torchwood lose some of its edge, and the belief that I usually suspend for my Torchwood viewing come crashing down.
Yes, Ianto's death was pointless, poorly written, and like some parts of Torchwood, a very untidy way of getting
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(no subject)
27/7/09 21:28 (UTC)That having been said, I don't think I'll be watching season 4, not as some childish kneejerk boycott thing but because I am not interested or invested enough in Gwen Cooper to watch for her alone.
If Ianto had lived, I'd be onboard. If Owen and/or Toshiko will still around I'd watch. If it's just Gwen and thhe increasingly broken damaged Jack - or worse, a Jack who is completely over Ianto and Stephen and ready to make Jack/Gwen happen? Not particularly appealing to me. :(
(no subject)
2/8/09 21:38 (UTC)Season 4, I don't know. I don't hate Gwen, but I stick around for Captain Jack, and I don't like him anymore. He's not the guy I saw and loved in The Empty Child/The Doctor Dances, not anymore. He's had "character development". Yay :|
Owen & Toshiko & Ianto. They were a good team. Asking me to love another team, well... it's not easy is it? Like you said, looking unlikely to be appealing.
After that mess of argument, I'm saying, that I might watch. Depends if it grabs me or not.
(no subject)
27/7/09 21:55 (UTC)(no subject)
2/8/09 21:47 (UTC)bag" and it's comforting to know that "because it's Sci-Fi", a lot of 'impossible' things can be fixed. But with Rose, I really wish they'd left her where she was. I especially wish the Doctor hadn't moped about her so much or that she came back, because, like you said, totally "lessened the impact". I mean, all those tears I shed over how Ten/Rose were broken? That's simply not funny.I didn't like the S4 ending either. A lot of personal fanservice from the only fanboy in the world. It could have been clever, but the way it ended up was just a bit too full of coincidences. I've watched it once, and once only. I probably won't watch it again.
About Donna though... I thought that was one of the most painful things I've ever seen, and I do kind of hope they rectify that.
I liked that bit actually -- the concrete rescue. Good thinking from Ianto, and naked JB! Result! After knowing the turnabout of Torchwood employees... I don't know if I could let myself care about any new characters though, that's the thing :/
And I want the old Jack back. The sexy, smart, funny one back :(